Comments on: Dispensationalism and Covenant Theology Contrasted http://www.imperishableinheritance.com/2007/dispensationalism-and-covenant-theology-contrasted/ Mon, 22 Feb 2010 03:00:29 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Chris http://www.imperishableinheritance.com/2007/dispensationalism-and-covenant-theology-contrasted/comment-page-1/#comment-5952 Chris Sat, 21 Apr 2007 00:52:24 +0000 http://www.imperishableinheritance.com/2007/dispensationalism-and-covenant-theology-contrasted/#comment-5952 Did you read my article: "<a href="http://www.imperishableinheritance.com/2007/does-the-church-replace-israel/" rel="nofollow">Did the Church Replace Israel?</a>" Did you read my article: “Did the Church Replace Israel?”

]]> By: Kari http://www.imperishableinheritance.com/2007/dispensationalism-and-covenant-theology-contrasted/comment-page-1/#comment-5948 Kari Thu, 19 Apr 2007 22:31:49 +0000 http://www.imperishableinheritance.com/2007/dispensationalism-and-covenant-theology-contrasted/#comment-5948 I tend to be leery of labels that do not appear in scripture and so the term â??Spiritual Israelâ? (in the context in which I generally see it used) makes me a little uncomfortable. Paul goes into some detail about Godâ??s relationship with Israel in Romans 9-11, with further clarification in Galatians 3-4 about how Gentiles fit into the picture. The sense that I have is that Israel maintains a special place in Godâ??s heart and that the people that God has chosen as His own who are not of â??ethnic Israelâ? He grafts into Israel, and those that are part of â??ethnic Israelâ? whom He has not chosen, He cuts out. I suppose you could say then that those remaining are the sum total of the all the elect, but I have seen people use the term â??Spiritual Israelâ? to support Replacement Theology, which carries in it the idea that â??the Churchâ? has replaced Israel in Godâ??s Heart, and that all the promises that God made to Israel in the Old Testament no longer apply to Israel, but instead can be directly applied to â??the Churchâ?. I think that one has to be careful about making any assumptions that in some way revises what God has revealed to us through His Word. I tend to be leery of labels that do not appear in scripture and so the term â??Spiritual Israelâ? (in the context in which I generally see it used) makes me a little uncomfortable. Paul goes into some detail about Godâ??s relationship with Israel in Romans 9–11, with further clarification in Galatians 3–4 about how Gentiles fit into the picture. The sense that I have is that Israel maintains a special place in Godâ??s heart and that the people that God has chosen as His own who are not of â??ethnic Israelâ? He grafts into Israel, and those that are part of â??ethnic Israelâ? whom He has not chosen, He cuts out. I suppose you could say then that those remaining are the sum total of the all the elect, but I have seen people use the term â??Spiritual Israelâ? to support Replacement Theology, which carries in it the idea that â??the Churchâ? has replaced Israel in Godâ??s Heart, and that all the promises that God made to Israel in the Old Testament no longer apply to Israel, but instead can be directly applied to â??the Churchâ?. I think that one has to be careful about making any assumptions that in some way revises what God has revealed to us through His Word.

]]> By: Chris http://www.imperishableinheritance.com/2007/dispensationalism-and-covenant-theology-contrasted/comment-page-1/#comment-5938 Chris Wed, 18 Apr 2007 03:11:09 +0000 http://www.imperishableinheritance.com/2007/dispensationalism-and-covenant-theology-contrasted/#comment-5938 @Kari: Good thoughts as always! Do you buy into the "spiritual Israel" (the sum total of the all the elect)? @Kari: Good thoughts as always! Do you buy into the “spiritual Israel” (the sum total of the all the elect)?

]]> By: Kari http://www.imperishableinheritance.com/2007/dispensationalism-and-covenant-theology-contrasted/comment-page-1/#comment-5937 Kari Wed, 18 Apr 2007 02:19:38 +0000 http://www.imperishableinheritance.com/2007/dispensationalism-and-covenant-theology-contrasted/#comment-5937 I continue to struggle to wrap my mind around what it means to be Dispensational, although that difficulty may be due to differences between Classical and Progressive forms of thought (which I wasn't aware of). I totally agree with Amanda's statement that God's purpose is His glory. God chose Israel for a very special purpose, which was to be the means through which He would bless the whole world. There are numerous references that Israel holds a special place in God's heart, and I believe that there are indications that, at some point, there will be a number of Jews who will come to know Jesus as their long awaited Messiah. The idea that "the Church" will have to be raptured away before this can happen makes no sense to me, which I think is the Tim LaHaye perspective [can anyone explain to me how he justifies that view scripturally?] God was already in the process of drawing non-Jews to Himself in the Old Testament. Some of those people are listed in the genealogy of Jesus. In Romans 11 Paul talks about how the gentiles are grafted in branches, and he says of Israel â??how much more readily will these, the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree!â? It seems to me that the natural branches are referring to ethnic Israel and that â??the electâ? are whomever God has chosen, regardless of race. Although I believe that Israel is precious to God I do not equate â??Israelâ? directly with the â??State of Israelâ?. From what I have been able to determine, the â??State of Israelâ? was established and is predominantly run by people who have a secular (and in some cases atheistic) mindset. It would appear that there are some commonalities between Israel today and at the time of Jesusâ?? first appearing in that much of leadership is more concerned about promoting their own agenda than honoring God. I do not know what Paul means when he says â??all Israel will be savedâ?, but I am content with the thought that God will accomplish His purposes, regardless of what anyone else thinks will happen. I continue to struggle to wrap my mind around what it means to be Dispensational, although that difficulty may be due to differences between Classical and Progressive forms of thought (which I wasn’t aware of). I totally agree with Amanda’s statement that God’s purpose is His glory.

God chose Israel for a very special purpose, which was to be the means through which He would bless the whole world. There are numerous references that Israel holds a special place in God’s heart, and I believe that there are indications that, at some point, there will be a number of Jews who will come to know Jesus as their long awaited Messiah. The idea that “the Church” will have to be raptured away before this can happen makes no sense to me, which I think is the Tim LaHaye perspective [can anyone explain to me how he justifies that view scripturally?]

God was already in the process of drawing non-Jews to Himself in the Old Testament. Some of those people are listed in the genealogy of Jesus. In Romans 11 Paul talks about how the gentiles are grafted in branches, and he says of Israel â??how much more readily will these, the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree!â? It seems to me that the natural branches are referring to ethnic Israel and that â??the electâ? are whomever God has chosen, regardless of race.

Although I believe that Israel is precious to God I do not equate â??Israelâ? directly with the â??State of Israelâ?. From what I have been able to determine, the â??State of Israelâ? was established and is predominantly run by people who have a secular (and in some cases atheistic) mindset. It would appear that there are some commonalities between Israel today and at the time of Jesusâ?? first appearing in that much of leadership is more concerned about promoting their own agenda than honoring God. I do not know what Paul means when he says â??all Israel will be savedâ?, but I am content with the thought that God will accomplish His purposes, regardless of what anyone else thinks will happen.

]]> By: Keith http://www.imperishableinheritance.com/2007/dispensationalism-and-covenant-theology-contrasted/comment-page-1/#comment-5829 Keith Thu, 29 Mar 2007 19:08:47 +0000 http://www.imperishableinheritance.com/2007/dispensationalism-and-covenant-theology-contrasted/#comment-5829 A unsubstantiated fit? Interesting assertion, Chris! Anyway, I know that you know full well what jabs I'm referring to. A unsubstantiated fit? Interesting assertion, Chris!
Anyway, I know that you know full well what jabs I’m referring to.

]]> By: Chris http://www.imperishableinheritance.com/2007/dispensationalism-and-covenant-theology-contrasted/comment-page-1/#comment-5817 Chris Thu, 29 Mar 2007 12:15:17 +0000 http://www.imperishableinheritance.com/2007/dispensationalism-and-covenant-theology-contrasted/#comment-5817 @Amanda: Well, Tim Lahaye and company are classical DP, and their influence on popular Christian culture has shaped the majority view on eschatology. Your last point is a good one, and it is definitely correct. The only thing I would add is that DP focus on <em>ethnic</em> Israel while CT focus on <em>spiritual</em> Israel (those united to Christ). @Amanda: Well, Tim Lahaye and company are classical DP, and their influence on popular Christian culture has shaped the majority view on eschatology.

Your last point is a good one, and it is definitely correct. The only thing I would add is that DP focus on ethnic Israel while CT focus on spiritual Israel (those united to Christ).

]]> By: Mike http://www.imperishableinheritance.com/2007/dispensationalism-and-covenant-theology-contrasted/comment-page-1/#comment-5814 Mike Thu, 29 Mar 2007 07:30:03 +0000 http://www.imperishableinheritance.com/2007/dispensationalism-and-covenant-theology-contrasted/#comment-5814 @Chris-I don't understand it, but since everyone else was doin it, I figured I would jump on the bandwagon. I am glad after so many years, to be in with the cool crowd!!! : ) @Chris-I don’t understand it, but since everyone else was doin it, I figured I would jump on the bandwagon. I am glad after so many years, to be in with the cool crowd!!! : )

]]> By: Amanda http://www.imperishableinheritance.com/2007/dispensationalism-and-covenant-theology-contrasted/comment-page-1/#comment-5813 Amanda Thu, 29 Mar 2007 01:21:21 +0000 http://www.imperishableinheritance.com/2007/dispensationalism-and-covenant-theology-contrasted/#comment-5813 Hm, well I haven't met any classic DPs then. They must be pretty rare. Are there many classic DPs? I don't usually hear you make this differentiation and this seems to be a big deal. I mean, I'm DP but Israel is not God's purpose of history, from my perspective. And, from the perspective of CT, you could say Israel is God's purpose: all believers are Israel and Jesus is Israel also. :-) Hm, well I haven’t met any classic DPs then. They must be pretty rare. Are there many classic DPs? I don’t usually hear you make this differentiation and this seems to be a big deal. I mean, I’m DP but Israel is not God’s purpose of history, from my perspective. And, from the perspective of CT, you could say Israel is God’s purpose: all believers are Israel and Jesus is Israel also.

:-)

]]> By: Chris http://www.imperishableinheritance.com/2007/dispensationalism-and-covenant-theology-contrasted/comment-page-1/#comment-5812 Chris Thu, 29 Mar 2007 00:50:17 +0000 http://www.imperishableinheritance.com/2007/dispensationalism-and-covenant-theology-contrasted/#comment-5812 @Amanda: The DP emphasis on Israel as God's main purpose in history lies truly in a classic view of DP. You can see this view in <a href="http://www.armageddonbooks.com/mtnpeaks.jpg" rel="nofollow">one of their many images</a>; you see the major prophets seeing the end of time but not the church age. The image shows the church age as a parenthesis. I also couldn't imagine any DP holding the "last minute" view on gentiles. Remember that Cedarville would be of the progressive variety of DP and not the classical version. That's a whole 'nother post. @Keith: Could you extrapolate upon those opinions? You do a good job of stating something, forget substantiation, and leave in a fit of glory. @Mike: I see you have the "@" down. All the cool kids are doing it! @Amanda: The DP emphasis on Israel as God’s main purpose in history lies truly in a classic view of DP. You can see this view in one of their many images; you see the major prophets seeing the end of time but not the church age. The image shows the church age as a parenthesis. I also couldn’t imagine any DP holding the “last minute” view on gentiles. Remember that Cedarville would be of the progressive variety of DP and not the classical version. That’s a whole ‘nother post.

@Keith: Could you extrapolate upon those opinions? You do a good job of stating something, forget substantiation, and leave in a fit of glory.

@Mike: I see you have the “@” down. All the cool kids are doing it!

]]> By: Mike http://www.imperishableinheritance.com/2007/dispensationalism-and-covenant-theology-contrasted/comment-page-1/#comment-5811 Mike Thu, 29 Mar 2007 00:28:08 +0000 http://www.imperishableinheritance.com/2007/dispensationalism-and-covenant-theology-contrasted/#comment-5811 @Keith-Coming from an unbiased, unknowledged about the topic reader, this was a well written article that provided a good viewpoint. @Keith-Coming from an unbiased, unknowledged about the topic reader, this was a well written article that provided a good viewpoint.

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