My Mormon Experience
This last weekend I was invited by a friend to attend his congregation. Normally, it wouldn't be abnormal, but my friend is a Mormon. Our conversations have been good, but it's been difficult to witness to someone who claims the same savior as I. It feels like a constant circle of debating frivolous issues when the true issue gets side-stepped.
This whole experience has given me a whole new appreciation for Aaron's ministry in Utah. I gave his website to my co-worker, and it has sparked good conversation. I went first to his house, and I had dinner with his family and two sisters (missionaries). We had good conversation, but it came down to the fact that I had to tell them before I left that their Jesus won't save them. I told him and the sisters that their Jesus was fundamentally different than the one I worship; he said I couldn't make such accusations until I came to his congregation. That prompted my recent visit.
The Visit
I went today, and never have I felt so alone in my life. It wasn't that the people weren't friendly, because they eventually were (which all churches suffer from and especially mine). It was three hours with three different sections.
The first section is usually a sermon, but this week was the "testimony service." People of all ages got up and said something like: "I testify that the Book of Mormon is true," "I testify that the church [LDS] is true," and "I testify that we have a prophet who receives guidance from God." Through all the testimonies no mention of grace was made. They said "atonement" and "truth," but they forgot the all important grace (Eph 2:8-10). In this service was also the time of "the sacrament" which is The Lord's Supper/Communion to Protestants. What made it odd was that children were of "the Aaronic Priesthood" and administered the bread and water. The water was odd, and it was explained in the next section.
I went to the class that my friend taught which was "gospel principles." It's basically a confession of the LDS church. That lesson was on "the sacrament." It was explained what the LDS church believes about the event. Passages from the Bible, Book of Mormon, and Doctrines & Covenants were all cited. In Doctrines & Covenants, Joseph Smith apparently received revelation from God that it doesn't matter what is consumed in the event as long as the "truth of the event" is maintained. This is used to justify their use of water.
Lastly, I went to the "elder quorum"which is basically a meeting of the men aged 18-45. A short lesson was given about how God answers prayer (from their theological vantage point). The lesson taught again and again about human responsibility. It was actually stated that God honors the prayers of only those who act. It was striking to give so much emphasis on man's action in regards to God's answering prayer. Also taught was the Mormon emphasis on personal revelation. Personal revelation seems to take a higher precedent over written revelation in Mormon theology.
Future Mormon Ministry
I realize how appealing the theology is of Mormonism to somebody. If somebody told you that you would be with your family forever into eternity, and you would never leave the side of your husband/wife that is a comforting thought. The only problem is that heaven isn't about earthly family but God's family which will spend all eternity worshiping the God of Abraham. This lesson has made Paul's teaching regarding sound doctrine very real.
"I solemnly charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and by His appearing and His kingdom: preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort, with great patience and instruction. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires, and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths." (2 Tim 4:1-4)
Prayer Requests
Please pray for my co-worker, his family, that congregation and Mormons around the world. They don't worship the God of the Bible; their Jesus isn't the Jesus that is revealed in the Scriptures. The Jesus I know isn't created, isn't a benchmark of divinity that we can reach in the eternal state, and He isn't restoring his church through Joseph Smith.
I saw first hand their theology, and it is a theology of hopelessness and no grace. The Mormon gospel is not the true Gospel (Gal 1:6-7). We must earnestly proclaim to every tribe, tongue, and nation the Gospel of free grace which is good news.
"You are My witnesses," declares the LORD, "and My servant whom I have chosen, So that you may know and believe Me and understand that I am He Before Me there was no God formed, and there will be none after Me." (Isa 43:10)
Additional Information
Feb 4th 2007 
32 Comments 
Feb 4th 2007
Interesting comments. In our Mormon meeting, the first speaker quoted the Book of Mormon where Lehi tells his son, Jacob that he knows he will be saved because of the righteousness of Jesus. He went on to say that he understood better today than ever Paul's perspective on grace. He said that everyone is just as lost as Paul would have been had it not been for the mercy and merits and grace of the Lord Jesus Christ. When he finished, everyone there said, "Amen."
Feb 4th 2007
I will indeed pray as you requested (BTW - 97).
Feb 4th 2007
@Alma: Thanks for the comment. I ask what exactly, as a Mormon, is your perspective on grace? It seems that Mormon doctrine minimizes the worth of Christ and His obedience by ascribing such things as baptism, temple marriages, etc. to determine whether one ends up in the celestial kingdom.
@Perry: Thx.
Feb 4th 2007
I stumbled upon your blog and was intrigued. I'm 17 and a member of the church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. I just wondered if you had read the book of mormon...if you haven't maybe you could find a copy read it and pray about it. I did and I've never been more sure about anything before. I know that the Book of Mormon is true. The gospel of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is what the world has been waiting for. I hope I don't offend you or upset you. I just love this gospel so much and I want the whole world to be as happy as I feel. If you do have any questions about the church I would urge you do look at http://www.lds.org Some of the other websites about our church are mistaken in their claims about what we believe. I'm sorry for taking up your time and space (feel free to delete this off your site)
Feb 4th 2007
@Tina: I'm not going to delete your comment. I love that you have come to my site and shared your thoughts!
I have read large sections of the Book of Mormon and studied their doctrine intensively. I have to say that my deep investigation of Mormonism has left me with the realization that it is aberrant to Biblical Christianity.
Can I ask what exactly you disagree with on those sites?
Feb 4th 2007
@Chris: My perspective is very close to that of Adam Clarke, expressed in his commentary on Hebrews 5:9. "Christ has bought men by his blood; and by the infinite merit of his death he has purchased for them an endless glory; but, in order to be prepared for it, the sinner must, through that grace which God withholds from no man, repent, turn from sin, believe on Jesus as being a sufficient ransom and sacrifice for his soul, receive the gift of the Holy Ghost, be a worker together with him, walk in conformity to the Divine will through this Divine aid, and continue faithful unto death, through him, out of whose fullness he may receive grace upon grace." That's similar to Brigham Young's comment: "The Latter-day Saints believe in the Gospel of the Son of God, simply because it is true. They believe in baptism for the remission of sins, personal and by proxy; they believe that Jesus is the Savior of the world; they believe that all who attain to any glory whatever, in any kingdom, will do so because Jesus has purchased it by his atonement."
Feb 5th 2007
Cool experience Chris, I hope more Christians can do the same and increase their heart's ache for the millions of Mormons.
Alma, the Book of Mormon has Protestant-ish sounding doctrine in it because it essentially reflects 19th-century restorationism, particularly Campbellism. Drawing back to its teachings might make one seem/feel more compatible with mainstream Christianity today, but things have changed and a whole new system of more modern Mormon theology has been built over it.
To quote Bruce McConkie excerpt which is appealed to in a current CES
institute manual, Doctrines of the Gospel:
"What then is the law of justification? It is simply this: 'All covenants, contracts, bonds, obligations, oaths, vows, performances, connections, associations, or expectations (D. & C. 132:7), in which men must abide to be saved and exalted, must be entered into and performed in righteousness so that the Holy Spirit can justify the candidate for salvation in what has been done. (1 Ne. 16:2; Jac. 2:13-14; Alma 41:15; D. & C. 98; 132:1, 62.) An act that is justified by the Spirit is one that is sealed by the Holy Spirit of Promise, or in other words, ratified and approved by the Holy Ghost. This law of justification is the provision the Lord has placed in the gospel to assure that no unrighteous performance will be binding on earth and in heaven, and that no person will add to his position or glory in the hereafter by gaining an unearned blessing."
Now compare that with Romans 4:4-5:
"Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due. And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness..." (Romans 4:4-5)
Also, note that Joseph Smith turned the meaning of verse 5 upside-down in the JST by rendering it, "not the ungodly".
Grace and peace in Christ, who justifies the ungodly like me by faith apart from works, Aaron
Feb 5th 2007
@Alma: I think Aaron has responded quite well to your point. Counterpoint?
Feb 5th 2007
Hey Chris,
I really enjoyed and appreciated your post. I'm not that familiar with Mormonism so this is a great way to learn. Fascinating discussion.
This is off topic but have you ever looked into textual criticism? I was talking to someone recently who believes pretty much the opposite of what I believe. Just wondering. Sorry... very off topic there. Continue the great discussion!
Feb 5th 2007
@Amanda: Yes, I have studied textual criticism quite in-depth. Anything in particular that you're wondering about? Feel free to e-mail/call if you'd like to talk more in-depth than blog comments allow.
Feb 5th 2007
@Chris: "I think Aaron has responded quite well to your point. Counterpoint?"
I don’t think he responded at all to my point. Rather, he introduced subjects I didn’t even mention. Had he responded, I would think he would have referred to at least one of my comments that dealt with Hebrews 5:9 – that it is not merely believers, but obedient believers who shall be finally saved—or the LDS concept that any reward whatever that comes to us comes because Jesus purchased it by the atonement. I’ve looked a couple of times and don’t see where Aaron responded to either of those points; so a counterpoint to his comments would probably ignore his.
@Aaron: I think your evaluation of the Book of Mormon as “Protestant-ish sounding†demonstrates a rather superficial understanding of both the BoM and Campbellism. While restorationism was a theme common to both Mormons and Campbellites, it’s barely mentioned within the pages of the Book of Mormon—and not at all found from a Campbellite perspective. When you refer to Protestant “sounding†doctrine, do you mean doctrines like a pre-mortal existence for mankind, the necessity of the Fall, theosis, an open canon, an anthropomorphic God, universal resurrection, the translation of the apostle John, that Adam and Eve worshipped Jesus Christ, that it is evil to baptize infants, and Jesus appeared to inhabitants of the Americas? Are these the doctrines you think Mormons have now drawn back from or did you have others in mind? You cite Tom Alexander’s article where he proposes historical conclusions based on very tenuous theological ground. (Especially his premise that the Book of Mormon “explored the relationship [i]between[/i] God and Christ†when the passage he cites states that Christ IS God.)
Your point of quoting McConkie does seem to escape me however. Parenthetically, I’d point out (since it seems to you to be a source of antipathy) that he cites several Book of Mormon passages to support his explanation. I’d disagree with his assessment that this is “the law of justification†and would suggest that it instead represents the conditions of the law elsewhere stated. However, we share the same perspective that God determines righteousness and justification rather than man. In providing this citation of D&C 132:1, McConkie wasn’t suggesting that salvation or justification may be earned. He was well aware of the teachings of both Romans and Galatians.
You wrote, “Grace and peace in Christ, who justifies the ungodly like me by faith apart from works,†and I would refer you to another statement of McConkie: “Does salvation come by grace, by grace alone, by grace without works? It surely does, without any question, in all its parts, types, kinds, and degrees. We are saved by grace, without works; it is a gift of God. How else could it come?†(What Think Ye of Salvation by Grace? Bruce R. McConkie, January 10, 1984)
Feb 5th 2007
Alma, I posted a partial response here: http://www.jesusnotjoseph.com/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=424
Feb 5th 2007
@Alma: I'm going to defer to Aaron on this. He is much more equipped to answer your questions. He set up a thread just for the two of you. Thanks for your questions.
Feb 6th 2007
I spent a whole day following some Mormon missionaries last year. I was writing an article for a reporting class. What seemed very fascinating to me was that for the first several hours, all of the rhetoric they used sounded like what I believed. It wasn't until I pressed for definitions that I realized how fundamentally different we are. We do know a different Jesus. It was a fascinating day, and in a subsequent visit we also had a very frustrating, circular discussion. Anyhow.
Dude, I can't wait to see you in a month! WOOT!
Feb 6th 2007
All I have to say is that you were once a Buddhist. Oh, the webs we weave with the comfort of time by our sides. Be well dear friend, and do well to remember that it is God who judges us; not us whom judge one another.
Feb 6th 2007
@Jamie: In brief defense of Chris, I think that one person going from relativistic philsophy to devout convictions it a sign of God's grace.
Feb 7th 2007
I always find myself spending a lot of time on your posts. This one intrigued me because I have been planning to study Mormonism here in the next few weeks. I am passionate about Jehovah's Witness and also the Faith Movement, both of which distort the Bible in their own ways. My next quest is to understand Mormonism and was wondering if you had any suggestions on reading material (other than just reading the Book of Mormon, obviously). I would appreciate it!
Feb 7th 2007
@Amanda: I would suggest those links under "Additional Information" in the post above.
@Beth: Looking forward to seeing you too!
Feb 7th 2007
I would just like to point out that I am now at 99 comments. One more until 100.
Feb 8th 2007
@Jamie
I also would say that anyone coming to the saving knowledge of Jesus Christ, especially from the worldview we are raised with in terms of religion and religiosity is only God's grace.
-Paul Wall
Feb 8th 2007
Wow, people commented back to me on your blog. That is funny to me. *sorry kids, didn't mean to over step the comment line.
Feb 8th 2007
I too have attended a service before and found many of the same feelings before, after and during.
I detect some underlying feelings that you have not commented on.
"The lesson taught again and again about human responsibility. It was actually stated that God honors the prayers of only those who act."
Care to elaborate on your feelings in the above quote. This is the only sound mormon quality I have found doctrinal support for in our mutualy loved devine scripture. The first example that comes to mind is the woman who lost the piece of silver (Luke5:18)
Nice post Chris. I hate to just pay compliment on the post that spurs debate and not so on your more scriptural posts but then again I'm a dispensationalist and I can't stand your covenant views (I'm smiling while I'm typing cause I love ya and this is a joke) Good job and bless.
Feb 9th 2007
Fascinating post. I loved it.
Your knack for writing is impeccable.
While I stand with you on this debate, it is also great to see your experience with Mormonism invoke a spiritual debate of sorts.
Feb 9th 2007
Thanks for those comments Travis!
Mar 2nd 2007
I am Mormon and am very happy with my religion. I do not know whether or not you are happy with your religion or belief system because I am not you. I really do not like it when somebody trys to put down my religion or tell me what I believe or how I feel. Mormonism is very complicated and is unique to each person. The theology is complicated but the feelings of the heart are simple and pure. I am really tired of people putting down Mormonism. I do not go around putting down Evangelicals even though I feel very bad when I am around them and their religion or whatever you want to call it sounds dumb to me. Thanks for listening.
Mar 2nd 2007
Larry, consider the words of some Mormons:
"If, after a rigid examination, it be found an imposition, it should be extensively published to the world as such; the evidences and arguments on which the imposture was detected, should be clearly and logically stated, that those who have been sincerely yet unfortunately deceived, may perceive the nature of the deception, and be reclaimed, and that those who continue to publish the delusion, may be exposed and silenced, not by physical force, neither by persecutions, bare assertions, nor ridicule, but by strong and powerful arguments—by evidences adduced from scripture and reason." - Orson Pratt, Divine Authenticity of the Book of Mormon, p. 1
"If faith will not bear to be investigated; if its preachers and professors are afraid to have it examined, their foundation must be very weak." - George A. Smith; 1871, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 14, pg. 216
"If we have the truth, it cannot be harmed by investigation. If we have not the truth, it ought to be harmed." - J. Reuben Clark; D. Michael Quinn, J. Reuben Clark: The Church Years. Provo, Utah: Brigham Young University Press, 1983, p. 24.
". . . convince us of our errors of doctrine, if we have any, by reason, by logical arguments, or by the word of God, and we will be ever grateful for the information, and you will ever have the pleasing reflection that you have been instruments in the hands of God of redeeming your fellow beings from the darkness which you may see enveloping their minds." Orson Pratt; The Seer, 1853, pp 15-16
"This book [The Book of Mormon] is entitled to the most thorough and impartial examination. Not only does the Book of Mormon merit such consideration, its claims, even demand the same." - James E. Talmage, Articles of Faith, pg. 273
It would seem you have abandoned this way of high-stakes kind of thinking for a purely self-centered feelings-oriented worldview? That is dangerous, my friend.
Mar 2nd 2007
@Larry: Thanks for responding, and I will happily always listen. While I do not strive to "demean" Mormons or Mormonism, I do want to stand up and proclaim that it is not the biblical view of Jesus or his teachings. A line has to be drawn in the sand.
Keep coming back, asking questions, and never feel like I wouldn't listen.
May 2nd 2007
@Chris: I appreciate the time and effort you have put into exploring the LDS religion. As a Latter-day Saint I have met many offer very resistant critiques from a foundation of ignorance in not only my own religion but theirs as well. I love to see religious discourse happening in an increasingly secular and cynical world. I feel that if we can continue discussing the differences in our points of view while keeping our hearts at peace with one another that we will be doing the Lord's work. I would submit that any discussion based in contention invites only contention and therefore is working against the love of God. Thank you for your testimony of the Christ. I too have a testimony of Jesus and believe that I will always be a unprofitable servant because of the eternal sacrifice of Christ. Once again, thanks for your consideration in spite of our disagreements.
May 2nd 2007
On "contention": http://mormonwiki.org/Contention
May 2nd 2007
@Mason: Thank you for those words. I don't want to come off the wrong way, but our understanding of Jesus is fundamentally different. I do want to hold every thought captive to Christ and display humility in our dialog, but it wouldn't be truthful or loving of me to avoid truth for false unity.
Please do understand that I was encouraged by your words, and I hope you will come back often to bat around the great questions of our day to honor Christ.
May 3rd 2007
To Chris: I very much agree that our understanding of Christ is fundamentally different. I know that my concept of Christ is in no way complete but I would submit to all reading that the way in which Jesus and his teachings have been understood have greatly shifted throughout time and space. In realizing my own ignorance on all things eternal I hope with all my heart to be able to take different perceptions of Christ (and Truth for that matter) and use them to inform my own understanding. I would also submit that through the Atonement of Christ we have in reality become united in the purpose of this existence. So it is only in a hope to align myself with Truth and with all of my brothers and sisters that I speak of unity. Thank you very much for your testimony of the Son.
Jun 2nd 2007
One of my best friends is a member of the Latter Day Saints. God knows I've pray for him until I don't know what else to pray and I've shared the true gospel with him over and over. Ultimately, it is in the Lord's hands, although one day I did ask him (my friend) what it would take to open his eyes to the truth (of course I know it would take the Holy Spirit doing it), but his response was interesting. He said just continue with your gentle prodding. My military responsbilities have taken me to a new location, so I don't get to talk to him much. But I pray that the seeds that were planted will be watered by others and that God will ultimately open His eyes that he might see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ who is the very image of God!